It's not going to happen. I'd love the UK to rejoin the EU but there isn't the political will to do, either here or in the EU27. Remember too it only takes any one of the remaining constituent nations to veto any membership consideration - and that's only after a process of political wrangling which can take a decade or more. If international treaties are famous for anything, it's that they are formed at glacial pace.
I'm also doubtful the public will is there in the UK, either. I wish I could say with confidence that if we had another referendum tomorrow on whether to rejoin or stay out, rejoin would comfortably win but I can't. It's one of those things which seems so obvious if you support one side, you just can't see how the other can possibly take the position they do.
In respect of the site, it's not going to persuade anyone who was either in favour of Brexit or on the fence, is it? It's clearly designed to preach to the choir. But partisanship and ideological bubbles is how we ended up in such a mess in the first place. If any campaign is serious about rejoining, they need to accept two things, IMO - first, that it's a generational cause, not something which will be achieved within a few years, and second, that any campaign will only succeed by making concessions with the EU and the pro-Brexit faction among the public, by understanding them and by forming a new relationship. To call this task gargantuan is an understatement.
I have a genuine question which I have been wondering about for sole time:
Is there anything positive to this “one nation can veto everything” rule? It feels like this is really blocking a lot of progress in the EU where some of the right-spectrum nations can simply block anything or bargain from.
Why do we have this rule and is it hard to get rid of it?
Yes, there is. The rule means that nothing can be forced onto any nation.
Many people, and nations, would be hesitant to join a union where you can be coerced to tolerate neighbors you otherwise wouldn't. Hence the idea of consensus.
Because we don't have a real European public and open discourse. It is just some losers online that happen to speak English as a common language. But even then you wouldn't know anything about domestic politics in Bulgaria (assuming your aren't from there).
You cannot really get to anything you can call democratic voting, it would be so random and indirect that it would basically become meaningless. So states still need a hard veto for themselves and the direction the EU will develop in.
In practice the EU has already got rid of this rule in almost every area, for that exact reason. However, it means that the arguments for leaving the EU get stronger. It used to be that a good answer to opposition to the EU was "but they can't force us to do anything because there's a veto". Now it's very far from that.
It's that exact trend that led to Brexit in the first place - your comment shows why it's problematic perfectly. EU supporters see it as a way to force left wing politics onto populations that otherwise would reject it.
There is one situation where it could happen. If the courts give Scotland another vote for independence and they vote yes, then it's quite possible the government would offer a vote on rejoining as a last resort attempt to hold the country together.
In my personal politics, Brexit was a disaster to crown the Tories’ slow descent from covert stupidity to overt flip-flopping chaos.
That said, this site just lacks the appeal to me. The rickroll is cute, but it just underlines a website style which feels a bit unserious, and while I certainly think this sort of thing shouldn’t be dry and depressing, it does sort of undercut it (especially considering the privacy popup is full-screen on mobile, which is a design no-no in my eyes).
As much as I hate to say it, the best course of action is to lean into rhetoric on key data points, like the infamous “£350m to NHS” on the side of a bus. While the site clearly feels like a project of serious passion, it feels like it lacks any punchiness, any meaningful slogans, any real impetus. “We want our star back” as a slogan implies to me that this site’s focus is preaching to the converted, which will at best put people off and at worst distract people from ways they can actually encourage better UK-EU relations.
This isn’t something that will even be on the table for likely a good general election or three, but even still, it feels like a focus on figures with a minimalist style would be a better approach.
While Don’t Pay UK [1] sort of had a rough time, you can’t deny their website and approach to messaging is quite appealing, probably because they’ve been taking notes from the Civil Service’s own excellent design style for the gov.uk site [2]. Then it’s a case of re-injecting a bit of flair into the style, star-based or otherwise, rather than going all in on CSS animations that undercut the message.
There are clearly good sides. The UK is still a big and powerfull country, nobody wants Irish or Scottish political instability, and it's a great morale booster to have a leaver come back.
But the UK had plenty of dark sides. They always wanted an exception for everything, with the pound not being an euro the famous example. The UK firmly pushed the EU in the 'economic union' direction, so now the advocates of deeper political unification get a chance. There was the only-half-joke from Yes Minister about how the UK only joined because they couldn't break the EU from the outside.
I presume the UK has not really demonstrated what really happens outside the EU. First Covid and now Ukraine are 2 major excuses for bad news, so the pro-leavers can still claim they are right. The EU probably wants to see some more pain in the UK first, to convince other doubters. But not too much.
So while the UK probably could get back in, it might be on much less favorable terms than they had in the past and take a while.
My intuition is 'yes, of course, but you don't get the opt-outs back'. So no budget rebate, Euro participation etc. Which would be a tougher sell in Britain than otherwise. I expect customs union re-entry in due course followed by single market membership (which is pretty much all upside for the EU side) and long discussions about rejoining the political institutions.
But nothing for the rest of this parliament or the next, probably. Starmer's not bold and/or reckless enough.
Trying to introduce the Euro into the UK would be political suicide for any politician brave/stupid enough to try. Only the most federast of libdems would support that here.
As much as I'd love for my country to return to the fold, there are too many idiots destroying the UK from the inside to even consider rejoining. First the Tories must self destruct and spend decades out of power.
The ahem _United_ Kingdom is already a _Union_ of 4 states - England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.
I'm not saying no to joining the European Union or the American Union, but if it's the USA, no it would not be just 1 new state. And Northern Ireland may have other ideas of who to join.
I don't think anyone in the EU is fundamentally against, but it seems reasonable to be worried about their 'staying power'. Nobody wants to go through entry and exit dances every few years. Also, it would be grand if British representatives would start showing up for meetings. Them being relatively uninvolved must have contributed to their sense of EU being unmanageable. Guess what: you gotta participate to exercise influence (and understand what's going on).
I don't agree. I think IF UK says they want to get back into EU they'll say YES almost instantly. (ok, maybe a covenant or two... Like UK having to accept the euro, for example).
But, from my POV, UK is just too desirable and powerful.
>> UK is just too desirable and powerful.
That's why the UK had a particularly good deal in the EU and would have to accept a worse one to get back in if it were even possible.
You have to consider that the EU is not monolithic. The UK that pushed to get southern and eastern countries into the union to grow the trade power of the customs union. France and some other EU countries probably would have preferred a more "core Europe" of countries of similar wealth and histories.
France gains in many ways if the UK stays out. It becomes the only member that can really project military power. France and the UK were often at odds about what the EU should be.
> France gains in many ways if the UK stays out. It becomes the only member that can really project military power.
Until Germany wakes up from their dream, which it looks they did after the Ukrainian invasion and the 100 billion euro budget for the Bundeswehr.
Its going to take time(if they stick with it), but if Germany continues to arm it self, I wouldn't be surprised if they become the new European superpower, maybe they just need Nuclear weapons at the end to seal the deal?(although I really doubt this will go down well with the population).
> IF UK says they want to get back into EU they'll say YES almost instant
UK as a full, voting member of the EU, on request? Not going to happen any time soon. Far too many downsides from the crazy brits. The UK would have to prove to the EU that they are going to be constructive, have worked all of the Brexit insanity out of their system and it wasn't coming back. This might take a while.
UK as an "EU aligned rule-taker" that participates in the single market, without voting rights, a bit like Norway? Sure, that's an easy win for both parties.
The EU would welcome the UK capitulating and "aligning" to the EU any time.
No, the UK won't have any voting power as a full member in the EU for quite a while, the EU will not allow that soon. 5-10 years seems optimistic IMHO.
I'm also doubtful the public will is there in the UK, either. I wish I could say with confidence that if we had another referendum tomorrow on whether to rejoin or stay out, rejoin would comfortably win but I can't. It's one of those things which seems so obvious if you support one side, you just can't see how the other can possibly take the position they do.
In respect of the site, it's not going to persuade anyone who was either in favour of Brexit or on the fence, is it? It's clearly designed to preach to the choir. But partisanship and ideological bubbles is how we ended up in such a mess in the first place. If any campaign is serious about rejoining, they need to accept two things, IMO - first, that it's a generational cause, not something which will be achieved within a few years, and second, that any campaign will only succeed by making concessions with the EU and the pro-Brexit faction among the public, by understanding them and by forming a new relationship. To call this task gargantuan is an understatement.