I agree all those other things are annoying/fraudulent, but...
> recently we dismissed developer after discovering he was working (also full time) at another company (we coordinated termination on both sides - I'm not even sure if it made him without work or just removed 2 out of N jobs)
I don't think I've ever heard a reasonable objection to this, assuming 1. the person's second job is not with a competitor, 2. they are not sharing confidential information (keep both jobs air gapped and separate) and 3. the person is performing up to expectations at both jobs.
We applaud low income service workers who bust their butts working multiple jobs (often 40 hours each) to make ends meet, but when it comes to office workers getting a second job, that's taboo. Doesn't make sense.
Yeah kind of scummy to get them fired elsewhere too. CEOs and board members do this all the time but god forbid middle class try to get ahead by working hard.
The difference is in hiding the fact and being transparent/disclosing it. Are you seriously saying you think it's fine to not disclose one or more other full time jobs you're doing at the same time while working remotely as developer?
When you complete your work - that's a big if - your company probably won't give a crap about the rest and will want to keep you.
If you keep barely completing fraction of your work, say 5% what you'd normally expect, it's a problem and looking at contract agreement where you agreed to work certain amount of hours for exchange of salary - that is not full-filled starts to matter.
Same way from PoV of employee it would not be fair if company would start to wire you fraction of agreed salary because they're also working with other developers at the same time and you just have to deal with it.
I don't personally have a dog in this race because I'm happy working a single job, but I think you might be making assumptions that don't necessarily apply to all full-time jobs.
If at your company, "duration of time someone's butt is in their seat" is a meaningful business measurement, then by all means, insist your employees spend the required amount of time in their chair. Most full-time jobs I've had did not specify hours with such rigidity, and the best ones were very flexible about other things we need to do during the day (even, gasp, during business hours). Your business might not be willing to provide such flexibility. Definitely ask candidates about side projects and other jobs during the interview process and make your policy clear so they know it's important. Disclosure goes both ways.
I would find it distasteful if I got fired (and then the firer reached out to another, unrelated party to continue the damage), over something that was glossed over (or never asked about) during the interview, and simply written somewhere on page 13 of the employment agreement.
Just to add to it, looking from time perspective you feel like a fool, there were many occasions in span of several months when SU/meeting couldn't be attended; already constrainted due to timezone difference, you'd think he'd make an effort to at least be available during short overlap hours, but couldn't because:
- had to pick up mom from airport
- had doctor's appointment
- electricity was cut off the building
- mom is out of medicines
- traveling back to my hometown
- still at airport going back home
- checkup with my mom
- at hospital
- my mom is getting gallstones removed (she was fine after operation!)
- have dental appointment
- i have follow up checkup
- have problems peeing for last days, decided to check at it at hospital
- wasn't able to check in yesterday sorry
- not feeling good today
- can't attend
- driving back from pharmacy
- had some headache this morning
- can't join accompanying my mom for her monthly checkup
- can't attend bought some meds for mom and got stuck in traffic going home
- power interruption in my area
- picking up my sister at the airport
- had fever
- still not feeling well hopefully my tonsils will heal tomorrow
- internet today is on/off in my area maybe due to weather
- my internet is off restarting my router
- i'm on m1
- dropping my brother at airport
- having connection issues
- there was line cut off near our area
- having issues due to upgrade in our area
- currently travelling to my province
- heavy traffic on friday
- can't join will be driving my brother to the airport and there can be traffic
I had this happen too. I started a spreadsheet to keep track just to show my bosses that I wasn't crazy, something seemed very off. The excuses I got were more questionable than these. I got very lucky when they were let go as part of a layoff, never had to really confront them about it.
I was thinking the same thing. Unless you know the situation of the employee, working to get them fired from both jobs can seriously put them in a bad financial position + loss of benefits, especially medical benefits. If they aren't happy with that just terminate employment. To go after them to get terminated from both jobs is just being an asshole.
> We applaud low income service workers who bust their butts working multiple jobs (often 40 hours each) to make ends meet, but when it comes to office workers getting a second job, that's taboo. Doesn't make sense.
My employment contract has right on there that all outside employment will be disclosed. And because I pay salary, I am expecting that all of your efforts will go towards my job.
Try to lie and hold two jobs? I will 100% fire you, and get the other place to fire you. In fact I have done this once myself as well.
> And because I pay salary, I am expecting that all of your efforts will go towards my job.
Why? Most (even salaried) full-time contracts require something like 38-40 hours per week. So long as what your staff are doing outside of those hours is not representing the company in a bad light, it should not be your concern. Trying to control what your staff do in their own time is toxic.
Why: because 40 hours is a minimum and not a maximum, I am hiring for salary not contract.
You can choose to hire double dippers then, when you start your own business. I am sure you will get a lot of quality work.
I really don’t think this view is out of the ordinary in the US. How many YV startups would allow someone to work for salary at a second job, if being paid a salary? I have seen many employment agreements, and it’s not very common.
It’s one extreme to own someone’s work output outside of work hours. It’s another to allow someone to collect two salaries.
> recently we dismissed developer after discovering he was working (also full time) at another company (we coordinated termination on both sides - I'm not even sure if it made him without work or just removed 2 out of N jobs)
I don't think I've ever heard a reasonable objection to this, assuming 1. the person's second job is not with a competitor, 2. they are not sharing confidential information (keep both jobs air gapped and separate) and 3. the person is performing up to expectations at both jobs.
We applaud low income service workers who bust their butts working multiple jobs (often 40 hours each) to make ends meet, but when it comes to office workers getting a second job, that's taboo. Doesn't make sense.