Removing the charger is a good move, in my opinion.
USB-C chargers are everywhere now. Monitors with USB-C or Thunderbolt inputs will charge your laptop, too. I bought a monitor that charges over the USB-C cable and I haven’t use the charger that came with the laptop in years because I have a smaller travel charger that I prefer for trips anyway.
You don’t have to buy the premium Apple charger and cable. There are many cheap options.
I already have a box of powerful USB-C chargers I don’t use. I don’t need yet another one to add to the pile.
The battery is good enough that I often travel with just my phone charger. I can plug the laptop in at night when the slow charge rate isn't a hindrance and be fine with the all day battery life
1. Premium phones and notebooks have been released with powerful chargers for years, so they are quite common in most households
2. a 15w charger will charge your macbook pro fine, slowly, but fine. I had to charge mine few times on a mobile one and you can work plugged or it will charge easy over night
I would nuance 2/ and says it will charge fine with 15W hen not in use. In use, my battery will deplete with a weak charger, it won’t charge, because the laptop consumes more than 15W when I use it – and that’s light usage.
I've got several 50+W chargers from other devices (old mbp, soldiering iron, a generic one). If you don't have a high power charger, buy one. Easy enough. But there are plenty of use that don't need another.
Every time I’ve gotten rid of an old laptop the charger goes with it. They are a package deal in my book.
I actually have very few USB-C chargers. With everyone leaving them out of the box, I don’t happen to have a bunch of them by chance. They took them out of the box before giving time for people to acquire them organically. I never bought a single lightning cable, but almost all my USB-C cables had to be purchased. This is not great, considering how confusing the USB-C spec is.
Other than the one that came with my M1 MBP (which I will lose when I sell it), I have had to purchase every charger I have.
Not being able to charge a $1,500+ laptop without buying a separate accessory is crazy to me. I’ve also seen many reports over the years comparing Apple chargers to cheap 3rd party ones where there are significant quality differences, to the point of some of the 3rd party ones being dangerous or damaging. I don’t know why Apple would want to open the door to more of that.
I assume a lot of people will use a phone charger, then call support or leave bad reviews, because the laptop is losing battery while plugged in. Most people don’t know what kind of charger they need for their laptop. My sister just ordered a MacBook Air a couple weeks ago and called me to help order, and one of the questions was about the charger, because there were options for different chargers, which confused her and had her questioning if one even came with it or if she had to pick one of the options. This is a bad user experience. She’s not a totally clueless user either. She’s not a big techie, but in offices she used to work with, she was the most knowledgeable and was who they called when the server had issues. She also opened up and did pretty major surgery on her old MacBook Air after watching a couple YouTube videos. So I’d say at least 50% of people know less than her on this stuff.
Apple positions themselves as the premium product in the market and easy to use for the average user. Not including the basics to charge the internal battery is not premium or easy. I can see it leading to reputational damage.
I have some 50+W chargers from old devices also. However, they are much, much bigger than the current ones. Doesn't matter for when my computers is plugged at home, but I wouldn't want to travel with it since it's easily 3x the size/weight.
My MacBook M1 Pro w/ 441 cycles started doing a fun thing where if the battery gets under about 50% and you put it to sleep, the ONLY way to power on the device is to use the exact charger it came with. Higher powered Apple Studio Display PD, or even good 3rd party chargers, do not bring it back to life. This occurs even when the battery has 40-60% remaining if the laptop goes to sleep.
Had a similar issue with my 2018 MBP Intel - the 86/87 Watt Apple charger was the only thing it would come to life with as the battery aged if the device got too low.
My dad had similar trouble with an M1 MacBook Pro that got a depleted battery. Two chargers he had wouldn’t work, but fortunately the Anki charger that I used for my laptop did work with one of the cables that I had (though not another). Once it got a little juice into it, then it was fine and he could switch back to his. But I think he was a bit more careful to avoid total depletion after that.
In 2018 I had a phone that entered a boot loop: battery depleted, plug it in, it automatically starts booting, it stops charging while booting, it dies due to depletion, it recognises it’s plugged in and starts charging, boot, stop, die, start, boot, stop, die… I tried every combination of the four or five cables that I had with a car USB power adapter and someone’s power bank, nothing worked. Diverted on my way home (an 8 hour journey) to buy another phone because I needed one the next day. When I got home, I tried two or three power adapters with all the cables and finally found one combination that worked. I learned the lesson that day that allowing devices to deplete completely can be surprisingly hazardous.
> I learned the lesson that day that allowing devices to deplete completely can be surprisingly hazardous.
The solution is to keep your devices charged. This is feasible if you have a few devices. Not practical for someone like me. I have too many devices. I don't use every device daily.
Yes, I don't often let batteries deplete but the issue I'm having on my MacBooks is that they will "die" with plenty of charge (often 40-60% left). But the computer thinks it is at 0% and won't boot past the "plug me in!" screen with anything except the OG charger from the Apple box. As soon as you connect the OG charger, it boots automatically and you see 0% battery go to 40-60% battery. At this point, you can uplug the macbook and use it - as long as you don't put it to sleep. Obviously battery/power related, but the only fix is using the charger that says/does exactly what my MacBook wants. I wonder how Apple handles this on the M5.
In my experience a low-power charger will revive, you just must wait for it to hit enough SOC since it is effectively starting off the battery. This does take a while, but starting dead on a supply that can't guarantee enough power would be dumb.
My M1 Pro with 441 battery cycles won't power back on without the Apple charger it came with if I close the lid or put it to sleep and the battery isn't over 60%... something happens and the computer goes into a sleep state where the battery doesn't drain but no charger except the OG brings it back to life.
Even a Studio Display, which can provide more power than my M1 Pro can use, won't wake it from this state. Apple wants $300 for a replacement battery so I'll just buy a new MacBook at that price, but the charger situation doesn't bode well for M5 MacBook buyers who wonder why their Mac is dead one day (and they just need the exact charger the system wants, but Apple didn't provide it)
Replacing a MacBook battery is a lot of delicate work. Not everyone has steady hands, great eyes, etc. For $300, the Apple Store is a better deal for most (and guaranteed to be a quality battery with warranty) compared to the difficulty of a $110 battery kit.
I don't want to use a 3rd party battery in a device I carry with me most places I go...
I re-did the battery on my 2013 MBP well after the Apple support period (~2020). I don't think I'd try it on a still-supported Mac unless I was very price sensitive.
When I buy a new laptop and sell my old one, I either have to sell the old one with the charger or keep the charger and sell the old one without. I don't actually have a bunch of spare chargers capable of charging a laptop (phone, sure).
This is especially true for someone moving up to an MBP from an MBA, which takes less juice.
I think it's awesome.
I have way to many chargers, specially USB-C, 5, 10, 20, 35, 70, and 95W all over the house and office.
If you need one, just shell the extra $100 that corresponds to your needs.
Many people got played on the charger thing. It’s never free, it’s a mandatory bundle. But companies only put one line item on the receipt, never refer to the primary component separately but instead conflate its name and idea with the bundle, and when forced to de-bundle (usually) bump the primary component’s price to compensate, and people buy it: “the EU took away my charger!”
Chargers don’t change quickly. If I lost my charger from 2019, the ideal replacement in 2025 would be literally exactly the same model—and mine still works like new and looks good. I have nothing to gain from buying a new charger.
We should be cheering the EU for ending an abuse that the US has long failed to.
Also, it still bundles a USB-C to MagSafe 3 cable.
If you sell your old laptop when you buy a new one, you generally sell it with old charger. And different Apple laptops take chargers of different maximum watts (they're compatible but not optimal), so they're not all the same anyways.
There's a reason they generally make sense to bundle. Especially with laptop chargers, which provide a whole lot more power than some random little USB-C charger you might have. Sometimes letting the free market decide actually gives customers what they want and find most useful.
> If you sell your old laptop when you buy a new one, you generally sell it with old charger.
Sounds like a symptom of incompatibility. I’ve only ever included the charger when it was specific to the laptop.
> And different Apple laptops take chargers of different maximum watts (they're compatible but not optimal), so they're not all the same anyways.
Chargers automatically provide whatever power level is needed, up to their max, and charging power isn’t the steady tick upward we’re used to elsewhere. The MacBook Pro did get a faster charger a few years ago, relegating old ones to that “compatible but not optimal” state, but meanwhile MacBook Air chargers got slower, and most releases didn’t change the charger. Certainly there are sometimes benefits to buying a new charger, but it happens much less often than new device purchases, and even when there are benefits purchases should still be the customer’s choice.
> Sometimes letting the free market decide actually gives customers what they want and find most useful.
I agree, but “free market” doesn’t mean lawlessness, it means an actual market that’s actually free. Actual market: companies compete on economics, not e.g. violence or leverage over consumers. Actually free: consumers freely choose between available options. Bundling is a very classic example of an attempt to circumvent free market economics, using the greater importance of one choice to dictate a second choice.
> Bundling is a very classic example of an attempt to circumvent free market economics, using the greater importance of one choice to dictate a second choice.
Only when there's no competition and you can use that to abuse market power.
But competition for laptops is strong. Most consumers want their laptops to come with a charger, even if you personally don't. That's why they're sold that way.
Like, nobody says the free market is failing because Coke forces me to buy carbonated H2O along with their syrup at the grocery store. The market prefers it when they're bundled.
I think you missed the point about bundling. In this instance, the first choice is your laptop choice, and the second is your charger choice. Because the first choice is far more important than the second, the party that’s chosen in the first can also dictate the second. There is no competition for who supplies chargers that come with MacBooks, nor should one expect there to be. This is a generalization of the mechanism by which many segment monopolies work, for example regional ISPs, where the two choices are most of your life vs your ISP.
> Most consumers want their laptops to come with a charger, even if you personally don't. That's why they're sold that way.
Citation needed, on both counts. Plenty of counter-examples in this thread. Non-tech people I know aren’t charger crazed, they’re mildly amused or annoyed by their inexplicable excess of chargers.
> Like, nobody says the free market is failing because Coke forces me to buy carbonated H2O along with their syrup at the grocery store.
I’d say it is indeed failed / nonexistent there, it’s just that nobody cares, because its potential benefit is so small it’s outweighed by overhead. Chargers aren’t laptops or cars or houses, but, as you said, there’s a lot more to them, and they’re more expensive and contribute significantly to e-waste. There actually is a charger market, and it’s better when it’s more free.
To be clear, the healthier market I’m envisioning is one where consumers can make charger purchasing decisions freely, not one where nobody’s allowed to also offer a bundle.
> Non-tech people I know aren’t charger crazed, they’re mildly amused or annoyed by their inexplicable excess of chargers.
"Charger crazed"? Huh?
They're amused by too many cheap underpowered phone and small device chargers. Not laptop chargers. Those are bigger and you don't usually have any extra.
There isn't much of a "charger market" for laptops, except people who want a second one for a second location. I've never heard of anybody with a Macbook who wanted to buy a non-Apple charger instead. And now Magsafe is back!
Like, my Macbook also bundles a keyboard, a screen, a trackpad, a battery, and so forth. Sure the charger isn't connected with adhesive, but it's still a unified product. You need a charger to use a Macbook, and most people don't have an extra laptop charger with enough power otherwise.
Forcing them to be sold separately for laptops is just silly.
The real crime is that it starts at 1799 euros, which is $2100, vs $1599 in the US, I know US prices are before tax but even with 20% VAT you're far off...
> Under EU rules, if the goods you buy turn out to be faulty or do not look or work as advertised, the seller must repair or replace them at no cost. If this is impossible or the seller cannot do it within a reasonable time and without significant inconvenience to you, you are entitled to a full or partial refund. You always have the right to a minimum 2-year guarantee from the moment you received the goods. However, national rules in your country may give you extra protection.
> The 2-year guarantee period starts as soon as you receive your goods.
> If a defect becomes apparent within 1 year of delivery, you don't have to prove it existed at the time of delivery. It is assumed that it did unless the seller can prove otherwise. In some EU countries, this period of “reversed burden of proof” is 2 years.
Apple overprices everything in the EU on top of not shipping new features. Currency risk is a thing but nowhere near the premium they charge. I personally vote with my wallet and stopped buying anything from them.
Those regulations don't prevent apple from shipping anything, they prevent companies from abusing their users. Apple is free to ship without abusing anyone, but explicitly choose otherwise.
ASUS’s ZenBook Duo (UX84060) is over 50% dearer in Australia than in the USA.
When it was announced, I expected it to be at least 4000 AUD (~2600 USD). When I heard it was starting at 1500 USD instead (~2300 AUD), I was astonished and very excited. And it still is that price… but only in the US. In Australia it is 4000 AUD (the 32GB/1TB model, which is 1700 USD, ~2600 AUD). So I sadly didn’t get one.
Is the rest of the world subsidising the US market, or are they just profiteering in the rest of the world?
Australia has actual consumer protections such as mandatory warranty repair for years on most high end electronics. This is the “real price” that includes the vendor’s estimated failure rate and cost to repair.
Americans pay the same amount, but… stochastically.
PS: Health care is similar. Australians pay a fairly predictable amount via taxes and Medicare, Americans gamble with bankruptcy every time they break a leg. But hey, if they don’t break a leg then the “system works”!
I think you read him backwards. It’s still cheaper in the US. Tariffs certainly exist in Europe but I’m unaware of any on these laptops and US Tariffs on goods from China don’t apply to goods from China to anywhere else that isn’t the US.
Macbooks shipped to Europe don't ever touch US ground (and I'd wager 99.9% of their parts don't either). So US tarriffs should be irrelevant - and the EU doesn't have big China tarriffs outside of EV and solar panel anti-dumping retaliation.
I have a strong feeling Apple is raising prices elsewhere in order to avoid pissing off the notoriously sensitive consumers in America. Sony is doing similar things with making the PlayStation expensive everywhere to make it affordable for Americans. The world is essentially subsidizing the tariffs for Americans.
People in other countries will get pissed but ultimately suck it up and buy a product. People in America will take it as a personal offense due to the current Maoist-style cult of personality, and you'll get death threats and videos of them shooting your products posted onto social media. Just look at what happened to that beer company. No such thing would happen in Germany.
Don't forget the environmental impact of a smaller box. The box will probably be less than half as thick, doubling shipping efficiency. These are air freight, so the CO2 impact is not negligible.
I'll take the discount and use one of my 12 existing USB-C chargers.
There are more 90W-capable USB-C chargers in my home than there are laptops. I certainly don't need another one.
Honestly I'd be fine for them to just remove the box altogether and use paper envelope like Steve Jobs did once.
>Don't forget the environmental impact of a smaller box
Compared to the marginal environmental impact to source materials, build hardware and parts, assemble, ship, stock, and transport to customer each unit, the box could be 10x larger and it wouldn't make a dent.
> ship ... the box could be 10x larger and it wouldn't make a dent
This is not how shipping works.
A larger box, even by 1 inch on any direction, absolutely makes a huge difference when shipping in manufacturing quantities. Let's not pretend physical volume doesn't exist just to make an argument.
10 planes flying with MacBooks == much different than 1 plane (in other words, when you 10x the size of something, as you suggest, it does actually have a huge impact)
The point being made is "it's not the paper fr the box that's the issue".
A smaller box allows more to be carried. But if we go that route, it's trivial to ship them without any box and box them domestically - and that's a 2-3x volume reduction right there.
> it's trivial to ship them without any box and box them domestically
Ah yeah I can't imagine any scenario where this could go wrong
Like man in the middle attacks
Replacement/fake products
... or you know, damage? Boxes provide... protection.
> it's trivial
Anytime you catch yourself thinking something is trivial, you're probably trivializing it (aka think about it more and you'll probably be able to think of a dozen more reasons packaging products is the norm)
Dropping the price was nice. They could have gotten away with a slight reduction in price, and a coupon inside to send away for a "free" charger, and then bask in the millions who couldn't be bothered to do it.
edit: suggested retail price also dropped with EUR 100. Mind is less blown now. It seems like a good thing in fact.
edit2: in Belgium, the combined price of the 70W adapter and 2m USB-C to MagSafe is EUR 120.
[1] https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/new-macbook-pro-does-no...