> status quo

Yes, we're talking about the current reality and trends about the future. Which is it, are EU manufacturers at large on the decline, or am I too focused on the current reality that they're doing okay, with exceptions?

> Making worse cars at higher prices can not work.

Who is talking about worse cars or brand loyalty?

A Renault 5 or Renault 4 are objectively good cars that sell well based on their performance and looks. Cars aren't bought only on the basis on cost, which is why premium or even just any other brand other than the lowest cost Skoda or Dacia exist in the first place.

> None of your arguments seem convincing at all.

It's not very convincing to say that manufacturing in the EU is on a death bed when its double the % of GDP as in the US, and has multiple domains where there are good performances. And then get extremely hung up that EU manufacturers must export, and that somehow cost is the only metric by which people buy stuff. And then get extremely hung up on car manufacturing in particular. But also somehow that EU manufacturing is worse quality, which you don't even attempt to prove. Yeah, when you put down the wrong conditions, you're going to get the wrong conclusions. And repeating them again and again doesn't make them more convincing.

Most best selling EV models in the EU are Tesla, from Renault or VW Group. Practically all of them are manufactured in the EU. This is not a declining trend.

And of course you're completely ignoring the reality that tariffs against Chinese dumping are a reality and here to stay in many markets. Manufacturers that relied a lot on e.g. the Chinese car market, like VW, will suffer. Others that didn't, like Renault, are doing just fine.

In the end I think outlet disagreement is this:

I believe that a Chinese car of the same quality, sold for 70% of the price of a European made car, will outperform the European car in every market, where those cars compete on equal footing. You disagree with that for reasons unfathomable to me.

I believe that the European export economy is vital for its prosperity. 45% of Germany's 1 trillion+ exports are to countries outside of the EU. You believe that loosing that economy can be made up in other ways, again for reasons which are unfathomable to me.

I do not think any evidence I could provide to you could convince you otherwise. That you are lying about what I said (e.g. that cost is the only thing that matters for cars or that European products are of lower quality) makes me not want to talk to you at all.

> I believe that a Chinese car of the same quality, sold for 70% of the price of a European made car, will outperform the European car in every market, where those cars compete on equal footing. You disagree with that for reasons unfathomable to me

I disagree with that for pretty obvious reasons. The fact that companies like GM and Ford still exist, and not everyone has been buying the cheapest car that fits their needs, unquestionably proves that buying cars is more than just price. Quality is hard to directly compare, but you also have maintenance needs/availability, brand recognition, design.

But anyways, you're talking about manufacturing more widely, and we spent too much time talking about cars. 20% of the EU GDP that are in manufacturing really aren't all about cars.

> I do not think any evidence I could provide to you could convince you otherwise

That's an almost smart way of getting out of having to provide any.

> That you are lying about what I said (e.g. that cost is the only thing that matters for cars

How else would I interpret your incessant attempts to try to convince me that a Chinese car at 70% the cost of an European one would always win? The fact that you're completely ignoring the presence of brand or the importances of marketing and design on car buying choices clearly indicates you only think of cars as their cost to buy. Which is really not what most people's first consideration is, otherwise, again, we wouldn't have Tesla, VW, Audi, Porsche, GM, Ford, Lexus, etc etc existing.